(QOTW 01202009) Friendly Fire and Faction Standings

[Draconis]

A follow on inspired by our own Kav. Official link (http://forums.play-earthrise.com/index.php?topic=2917.0)

Hello everyone!

Today's topic is one that's gotten a lot of talk, that of friendly fire. PvP and faction standing was something we discussed in August 2008 at our House of Commons chat, however the topic still remains popular to this day. After doing some looking around on the matter, I recalled this post:

16:07] <Destinova> *Kavadas* Will killing factioned players in PvP influence the factional reputation of the killer to any degree? For an example, if a neutral player kills a Continoman player will that neutral player lose faction reputation with Continoma?
[16:08] <[MS]RaynerTheApe> Yes, if a Neutral player kills a Continomian player within the influence of Continoma guards, we will be severely penalized. In fact, Neutral players have the most limitations on attacking other players compared to Continoma and Neutral - they at least get no penalties for attacking players of the opposite Faction.

That was a good answer, but what about Continomans killing each other? You wanted to know, so we decided to talk some more about it. Our question today is this, is friendly fire possible, and if so, how will it affect your reputation with your current faction? Here's what our developers have to say.

Judging from the activity on our evergrowing forums, a lot of you are curious about how friendly fire works in Earthrise, and whether it would be possible or not to turn against your friends at any moment and what the consequences would be. If we allowed friendly fire in Earthrise, then everyone will become a player killer by default and that is something we want to avoid.

In Earthrise, we have turned off friendly fire by default due to the dynamics of combat especially within mass Territory Conquest battles and to allow for a wide variety of area attacks. Players won't have to worry damaging their own party members when hurling massive explosions on the battlefield and thus lose the combat momentum. Still, if they prefer to turn on their own, they can do that by holding an additional button while executing an attack. This enforces damage dealt to every target caught in the attack.

When a player deals enough havok among his own flock to be cast out, he won't immediately become part of the enemy, he has to visit the other faction and willingly accept to become a part of it. In some cases where players attempt to shift too much from one side to another and then back (with the exclusion of spy missions), they will accumulate Traitorship. This is a negative score that takes time and effort to clear and as long as players are considered a traitor, they won't be accepted among the other faction members. Such players will be temporarily caught in a very unpleasant situation of being factionless outcasts but it won't take long for an active player to return to normal so they can choose their side again.

So there you go, that's the deal with friendly fire. Now I'm sure you've got questions, comments, and speculation...
Fire away,
~ m.

[Cooke]

Excelente, kudos to El Gran Kavador.

I figured they'd have to come back to this one eventually. This seems pretty well thought out and is pretty darn unique from some of the many other options in other MMOs. The traitorship thing could really be a cool RP tool. Although you probably wouldn't be able to get near anyone or anything without getting shot.

Thanks for the update Drac.

[Valdin]

I really dont know if I like this system or not. I think I agree with a lot of the people that are having this discussion on the ER forums. Getting rid of FF, which is pretty much what they did, will just make everybody use AOE all of the time.

I always prefered systems that made you think about the attacks you use when and the consequences of using that attack. I dont know I guess I just think more in tactics than anything else.

There is a huge discussion / fight going on in the official ER forums right now on this QOTW. We are stil waiting for Moll to clearify the issue. The big issue is Territorial Combat and how that is going to work with this system cause it does say in other QOTW that you can attack and fight same faction guilds for a territory for no penalty.

Upon closer reading of this weeks QOTW it does say that:

In Earthrise, we have turned off friendly fire by default due to the dynamics of combat especially within mass Territory Conquest battles and to allow for a wide variety of area attacks. Players won't have to worry damaging their own party members when hurling massive explosions on the battlefield and thus lose the combat momentum. Still, if they prefer to turn on their own, they can do that by holding an additional button while executing an attack. This enforces damage dealt to every target caught in the attack.



Does this mean that only party members and guild members are exempt? I guess I am opening this up for discussion. While the QOTW seemed to give some answers it made just as many new questions.

[Valdin]

The good thing about the system they are implementing is that there is confusion if someone of the same faction attacks you. If he attacks you then he meant to do it. That will clearly make them a traitor to the faction or at least to the guild. Maybe they werent against the faction they just wanted your territory. Adds a whole new area of politics and fun

[Draconis]

Does this mean that only party members and guild members are exempt? I guess I am opening this up for discussion.
I hope it's only those in your current squad, and any other squads you are platooned with. This will make it more challenging for larger groups to coordinate their fire, so we can show off our superior organization and discipline :)

So I hope FF is based on your current squad, not guild or other affiliations.

[Campbell]

I interpreted it to mean faction, so folks meeting a certain level of Continoma will be safe from accidental discharges or my suicidal HAL 9000 robot going berserk, but if some continoman in another guild is being a douche, I will be able to attack him as easily as I attack the Noir or non factioned.

Only problem is that the folks who hate faction and won't play to a particular one will inevitably be on one side or the other depending on who they most recently killed and we might have to always be holding down the key for certain ones.

If it were just squad that was safe, then massive pvp fights would suck when the guys at the rear drop big AOE on the guys in the front, including their own faction's melee types. But if a jerk wanted to aoe his own faction, he would be free to do so by hitting the FF key.

I am not sure which scenario I support as of yet, there are good arguments in favor of and against both.

[Cavadus]

Hmmm, I'm with Valdin. I prefer FF every time all the time.

[Valdin]

The big thing that worries me is that when it comes to Territorial Conquest the faction doesnt always matter. They were very specific when they said that factions will fight each other for territories.

I dont want to have to hold down a button or force activate every member of the other guild casue they are fighting use for the same resources. I see exactly what your saying Campbell.

I just think that FF should be on except for guild members or squad members. It just added more tactics and organization to the game. But I do see both sides of the discussion. Both sides have valid arquements.

[Valdin]

Its all about making a game fun and enjoyable by the mass. Thats the problem that sometimes comes up. There are decisions that need to be made in instances like this that are not popular but may be better overall.

[Draconis]

Well, lets see how it plays out in beta, then see how MS responds to our reactions based on the actual game play. At least if they have it in, it's simpler to remove (or tone down) than vice versa.

[Payton]

I would expect a combat log to tell you who it was that was damaging you, how much, and possibly by what means.

It also may mean that if you want to retaliate or protect yourself then you also would have to choose to press that extra button to attack that person of your faction who is attacking you, and you may end up attacking others inadvertently?

I would prefer and expect that you could automatically attack them without any extra button and your answering fire would not have any area of effect consequence towards anyone else you were not intending to attack.

What they also clearly state though is that spy misisons will be .... exciting and purposeful. To that end WE - the 47th -- should open a discussion about spying and strategies, but that discussion should probably be only amongst officers so any identity of a spy is well guarded and those activities and gains are kept very secure.

I would suggest a character or two or three be specifically created to do nothing but advance with the intention of being a spy, and that way the 2 or 3 can group together and support each other for some preliminary advancement. Maybe those "3" might not even be part of the 47th initially until they gain some favour with other sides and come to us as somewhat unknown but respected players. At that time they could then group incidentally with guildies and eventually be almost recruited by those of us that don't know their identity or relationship.

They will always have to have their "owners" kept guarded and undisclosed. Even in the best guilds there can be rifts and division. Or, there can be those who would try and infiltrate us, or most likely, through an ally who might not be too particular about who or how they recruit.

[Draconis]

I would prefer and expect that you could automatically attack them without any extra button and your answering fire would not have any area of effect consequence towards anyone else you were not intending to attack.Actually, that's something to work out in the beta. It might be too easy for a greifer to cause a chain reaction of FF. If I'm right and protection from FF only applies to the squad or platoon, kicking the 'team killer' should be the right response. Then the entire unit can waste him.
What they also clearly state though is that spy misisons will be .... exciting and purposeful.I'm pretty sure all the spy stuff that MS talks about is PvE, centered on factions and quests, not player guilds.

I don't expect faction will matter much outside the reach of the NPC guards. It will matter to the 47th, but that's by our choice.

[Valdin]

I'm pretty sure all the spy stuff that MS talks about is PvE, centered on factions and quests, not player guilds.

I don't expect faction will matter much outside the reach of the NPC guards. It will matter to the 47th, but that's by our choice.


I agree with Draconis on this one. They have already said that in territorial combat guilds will be firghting each other and that is reguardless of faction. I thing the big thing with faction will be where you will and will not be able to go.

A Noir is not just going to be able to walk into one of out NPC strongholds. And to that effect they have said that we will have automated defenses as well. There are a lot of questions on the whole FF and faction but that should be resolved in Beta.

In beta we will be able to at least have a good look at the system. I am keeping an open mind and will decide once I have seen the system first hand and played with it.

[Campbell]

It's all fun and games if you want to make a "spy" for role play purposes but for in game guild politics, regardless of faction we aren't going to be sending folks into other guilds to spy on them, or ourselves. Ever.